Catholic Exchange

The US Standing in the World

Reports from Baghdad suggest that, alongside the continuing carnage, the U.S. troop surge combined with new tactics may be having some effect in quelling the insurgency. It's too soon to draw conclusions — the insurgents, remember, are a resilient and adaptable bunch — but this at least suggests the possibility that, given time, something resembling a semi-successful outcome might yet be achieved in Iraq.

Considered in that light, congressional efforts to set a deadline for U.S. troop withdrawal appear to have at least as much to do with American politics as with what's happening in Baghdad. But to reason that because we were wrong to go to war four years ago — as, in fact, we were — we can somehow rectify our mistake by a hasty pullout now is dubious logic, to say the least.

Still, even to speak of "success" in relation to Iraq requires setting aside the unrealistic expectations of 2003. Iraq is hardly on the road to becoming a model of democratic stability in the Middle East. Even more to the point, any success that might conceivably come about there couldn't change the fact that this conflict never did meet the criteria of a just war, nor could it cancel the loss of life and other harm.

High up in the catalogue of harm has got to be the injury done to America's standing in the world.

"After 9/11 there was unanimous sympathy and support for America in my country. But not any more. Iraq put an end to all that." The speaker was a Catholic layman from an Asian country with whom I was having breakfast in Rome last month. This was no knee-jerk spewer of an anti-American party line. Here was a serious-minded, deeply concerned individual distressed by the recent direction of American policy.

 He wasn't the only one. A Vatican nuncio, visiting the home office, took the same line in a friendly chat. Even an American who works at the Vatican and who backed the war four years ago was decidedly iffy this time. On the evidence, it isn't just our enemies but also friends who see Iraq as a world-class American mistake.

To be sure, die-hard unilateralists will respond to that news by saying simply, "So what? We're a superpower, aren't we? We don't need anybody's approval to do what we think is necessary and right."

If you ponder that statement with tunnel vision, it's true. But it's also beside the point. There are compelling reasons why America needs friends and allies at least as much as anyone else. Events since 2003 have increased that need.

There was a time, after all, when the United States might conceivably have mounted an effective unilateral response — short of bombing, that is — to the threat posed by the nuclear ambitions of North Korea and Iran. Not any more. Such hope as may exist for negotiated settlements of those crises requires the involvement of powers like China, Russia, and Japan. The unilateral alternative for America is bombs-away — and what sane person wants that?

Realism about our diminished standing in the world is essential in these difficult times.

An American working in a Scandinavian country e-mails me to report being shown videos purporting to prove that the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were staged by the American government to justify war. Crazy? Of course it is. Along with everything else, Iraq has been a gold mine for anti-American crazies. No matter what we do next, it's going to remain that for years to come.

Comments

  1. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    "Such hope as may exist for negotiated settlements of those crises requires the involvement of powers like China, Russia, and Japan."

    What if China and Russia are the ones selling countries like Iran and North Korea weapons, technology, and other materials to make nuclear bombs, such that they don't want to stop these countries from obtaining such power?

    What if, in short, their interests are not for the true good, but for their own selfish gain, such that they refuse to ever stand up against evil with us. Can the U.S. act "unilaterally" then?

  2. Guest Avatar
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    Russell,

    You mentioned that the Iraq war never did meet the criteria for a just war.  Let's review the criteria… 

     (Jus ad bellum)

    In modern language, these rules hold that to be just, a war must meet the following criteria before the use of force (Jus ad bellum):

    • recapturing things taken
    • punishing people who have done wrong
    A contemporary view of just cause was expressed in 1993 when the US Catholic Conference said:

    "Force may be used only to correct a grave, public evil, i.e., aggression or massive violation of the basic human rights of whole populations"

    • Comparative justice: While there may be rights and wrongs on all sides of a conflict, to override the presumption against the use of force, the injustice suffered by one party must significantly outweigh that suffered by the other;
    • Legitimate authority: Only duly constituted public authorities may use deadly force or wage war;
    • Right intention: Force may be used only in a truly just cause and solely for that purpose—correcting a suffered wrong is considered a right intention, while material gain or maintaining economies is not.
    • Probability of success: Arms may not be used in a futile cause or in a case where disproportionate measures are required to achieve success;
    • Proportionality: The overall destruction expected from the use of force must be outweighed by the good to be achieved.[6]
    • Last resort: Force may be used only after all peaceful and viable alternatives have been seriously tried and exhausted.

    Note that these are only the most typical conditions cited by just war theorists; some (such as Brian Orend) omit Comparative Justice, seeing it as fertile ground for exploitation by bellicose regimes.

    Conducting a just war (jus in bello)

    Once war has begun, just war theory also directs how combatants are to act:
    (Jus in bello)

    • Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of discrimination. The acts of war should be directed towards the inflictors of the wrong, and not towards civilians caught in circumstances they did not create. The prohibited acts include bombing civilian residential areas that include no military target and committing acts of terrorism or reprisal against ordinary civilians. Some believe that this rule forbids weapons of mass destruction of any kind, for any reason (such as the use of an atomic bomb).
    • Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of proportionality. The force used must be proportional to the wrong endured, and to the possible good that may come. The more disproportional the number of collateral civilian deaths, the more suspect will be the sincerity of a belligerent nation's claim to justness of a war it initiated.
    • Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of minimum force. This principle is meant to limit excessive and unnecessary death and destruction. It is different from proportionality because the amount of force proportionate to the goal of the mission might exceed the amount of force necessary to accomplish that mission.Just cause: must get rid of enemy that threatens basic human existence.

    Ending a war: jus post bellum

    In recent years, some theorists, such as Gary Bass, Louis Iasiello and Brian Orend, have proposed a third category within Just War theory. Jus post bellum concerns justice after a war, including peace treaties, reconstruction, war crimes trials, and war reparations. Orend, for instance, proposes the following principles:

    • Just cause for termination – A state may terminate a war if there has been a reasonable vindication of the rights that were violated in the first place, and if the aggressor is willing to negotiate the terms of surrender. These terms of surrender include a formal apology, compensations, war crimes trials and perhaps rehabilitation.
    • Right intention – A state must only terminate a war under the conditions agreed upon in the above criteria. Revenge is not permitted. The victor state must also be willing to apply the same level of objectivity and investigation into any war crimes its armed forces may have committed.
    • Public declaration and authority – The terms of peace must be made by a legitimate authority, and the terms must be accepted by a legitimate authority.
    • Discrimination – The victor state is to differentiate between political and military leaders, and combatants and civilians. Punitive measures are to be limited to those directly responsible for the conflict.
    • Proportionality – Any terms of surrender must be proportional to the rights that were initially violated. Draconian measures, absolutionist crusades and any attempt at denying the surrendered country the right to participate in the world community are not permitted.

    I believe that all of these principles were, and still are, met.  The fact that the rest of the world hates us because they lost a lot of lucrative deals with Saddam Hussein does not mean we should not follow our principles.  Sooner or later, we will have to stand up to the tyranny of oppressive militant Islamists.  I would rather do it now than leave it up to my children and grandchildren.  As it is, I believe Europe is already lost – it's just a matter of time before it truly manifests itself. 

  3. Guest Avatar
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    God loves you .

    Hmm – theshahids have some interesting evidence right out the mouths of Catholic hierarchy, and in Magisterium – noteworthy for absence in many a ‘now-we-know-better’ piece by commentators like Russell Shaw.

    If the point is the hackneyed ‘there were no weapons of mass destruction’, Saddam Hussein and his Ba’athists were themselves such weapons. As well as human resources for terror and war, not all weapons are hardware; some are as soft an old dollar bill – or, Saudi riyals.

    Of course, theshahids also brings up that many anti/non-American types have agenda of their own. This is much like the Iranian-supplied insurgent terrorists, eh? These self-centered agenda yield questions about their deep concerns about the average Iraqi citizen; and ‘peace’ long under assault before 9/11/2001.

    I tend to agree with Lincoln, and statesman before and since our 16th President, that the American experiment is likely ‘the last, best hope’ for secular governmental alignment to God’s will. Surely, nothing out of Asia or Europe can hold a candle to the American way.

    Let us say that the rest of the world combined has not the ‘I-want-to-go-there’ immigration flow that we have long experienced.

    Frankly, like dsr9996, I want the ongoing and yet worse-impending battles of the war with resurgent insurgent shar’ia-ists to happen elsewhere than on American soil. Such aggressors had more to do with and in Taliban Afghanistan and Hussein’s Iraq than anything in, say, Minneapolis or Tallahassee. There, the battles have a front that can be fought close to where the tyrannical ideologies are born. Or, can we look forward to some American ‘leader’ waving some piece of ultimate brinkmanship and quoting: ‘Peace in our time’?

    Of course, too, I trust that Russell Shaw has points that he can offer in response, for he has been a responsible commentator on many issues affecting Catholicism. Then again, I want our MSM to look like they report to Americans for Americans. They should not (and, toward vigilance for freedom, MUST not) bear out yet one more set of agenda that has nothing to do with the America (and her few allies) who is willing to stand up where others all seem to prefer laying down.

    Every war has mistakes made – it is inevitable, given the scope. After all, there are some few who would still maintain that we made nearly five hundred thousand terrible mistakes between late 1941 and the summer of 1945 – that is, the toll of our dead in World War II. Even among Machiavellian pragmatists and commonsense pacifists, such mistakes call for ‘righting’, as we must make every effort to do – surely, not for ‘running’.

    Remember, I love you, too

    Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,

    Pristinus Sapienter

    (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or … yahoo.com)

  4. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Mr Shaw,

    what is your point?  And what is your plan?  I thought I was going to read an article detailing the evidence of America's success in Iraq…such as restoration of the wetlands along the Tigris and Euphrates river delta.

    One reason the US has had such a hard time of it is that there was no reliable infrastructure when we arrived….just a tyrant  who ruled by murder.

    By the way, your anecdotes don't amount to a hill of reliable data from which to base decisions.

    The first Iraq War, Desert Storm, never was ended by anything other than a Cease Fire.  Therefore, since the terms of the cease fire were repeatedly broken by Saddaam, we had a right to resume the conflict on that basis alone.

    War is the "materialization" of Hell….no doubt about it.  But evil must be combated and good innocent people will suffer. Partisan Politics determining the course of War disgusts me…but that too is a fact of history.

    I'm not exactly sure what MY point is!  I only know that to speak in flippant terms with trite comments off the cuff insights seems disrespectful and unproductive given the grave circumstances of life and death involved in this issue.

     

  5. Guest Avatar
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    Time to stop thinking about what our enemy thinks about us and time to think about who we are and what we stand for (synoptic review of Dr Scott Peck's book-"people of the Lie".

  6. Guest Avatar
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    God loves you .

    It has further come to my mind that of the world’s view of the USA, one need only look to critical votes in the UN. It has seemed constant nearly to inevitable that even those who have benefited from our largesse have given us short shrift, especially over Israel. But, too, beyond the issues of Israel and the so-called Palestinians, who did not even by such name exist before 1948, we have been alone very often.

    What the world thinks of the USA has long been a mixed bag of European secularist ‘superiority’ and developing-countries’ envy. Brewed up by communist Russia and stirred by Gaullist France, we have never been held in high regard by foreign muckety-mucks. Though, even before that, the treachery of Pearl Harbor was by Japanese calculation an easy victory because America was so very weakly self-centered.

    And, now it seems, many Americans would have the Japanese Imperial leaders belatedly accurate.

    My first paragraph pertained to Mr. Shaw’s concern about the views of non-American others. Considering the majority of these others deliver hot air and glib talk, my respect for them is small: ‘Let’s see YOUR actions for freedom and peace, folks. Walk the walk, for a change’. But, is Mr. Shaw going off a bit in the direction of the axe-sharpening MSM and electioneering of certain political ‘leaders’? Does my concern in my further paragraphs include Mr. Shaw, now, and others, too?

    Remember, I love you, too

    Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,

    Pristinus Sapienter

    (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or … yahoo.com)

  7. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    I feel that Mr. Shaw is becoming disrespectful and disingenuous in his writings.  I have become a supporter of the Iraq war, and am hardly a 'unilateralist', nor is the war unilaterally fought.  Much of the foreign opposition to the war has proved to be corrupt in nature.  As a pro-lifer, I see that even a bad day in Iraq now is better than a good day in Iraq before 2003, it just gets more press coverage.  Hussein was providing financial and material support to Al-Queda, was pursuing WMD's on multiple fronts, was grossly in violation of Cease-Fire conditions, and 'dialogue' was not working.  Enough!

    Terry

  8. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    I liked the article. Essentially true. although I believe many people around the world (including me) still like America, but dislike its current governemnt and dislike the Iraq invastion. True, the ones that disliked America now hate it even more

    Of course, uUnitalterallism isn't working. America is losing its war without any optimistic prospects. Losing both militarily and on the diplomatic front. The image of the country is as bad as it never does.

     

    But I think things can improve. Unlike many histerical anti-Europeans here, I do not believe that either Europe or US "is lost."

    And I don't blame only the US. Its a coalition war. Although many of its members did not join it fully on their own will.

     

    Indeed the war was neither just, nor necessary. nor possible to win as it turns out.

     

    Vytautas 

  9. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    God loves you .

    One question, vytautus – who of our esteemed American ‘leadership’ would have done better than our current administration?

    When I look at Bush, I also look at the likes of Blair, Chirac, Putin, etc., et ad nauseam. I see the likes of Kerry, Clinton (both), B.O., Gore, Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Leahy, Durban, Teddy (‘Gee, where’s Mary Jo, Ted?’) Kennedy, seedy and weedy crops of authoritarians (also read: tyrants) in China, Iran, Syria, the Sudan, North Korea, ‘Palestinia’, etaim ad nauseam, as among these ‘leaders’. I’ll take Bush – you can have the rest.

    When it comes to ‘necessity’, we better win this war, Bub; or if you live closer to these jihad fanatics than I do, you just may be singing portions of ‘shar’ia’ before I might.

    And, even Mr. Shaw cites nothing ‘unjust’ about the war – merely piping current defeatist crap.

    American troops, command and enlisted, think that this war as now being fought in Iraq, can be won. Of a second question: How say you, to counter their appraisal?

    Remember, I love you, too

    Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,

    Pristinus Sapienter

    (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or … yahoo.com)

  10. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Pristinus,

    We clearly have differences of opinion. Some of the names you mentioned I do not know, but I guess most of them would be better than Bush.

    Bush is not going to bring peace. He is a threat to peace. I beleive one of the greatest threats to peace currently in the world.

    His war is only encouraging and provoking radical islamists, and all the world suffers. Especially the US, apart from, of course, the devastated iraq.

    The war is not just because it is an offensive war. The only war that is just is defencive. Bush had no licit reasons to attack Iraw. But I believe there might be illicit and very cynical reasons. I am less and less sure he had good intentions, although I admit I used to believe he had.

    The war is against international law. It was an obvious violation of the UN charter of which the US is a signatory. It should at least have the honesty to leave the organization whose rules it so openly disregards.

    Lastly, even if it is a just war (which it is not), i don't believe it can be won. No matter how many islamist figthers you kill, more will come from Iraq and from around the world to join the ranks. (It surprises me how some people still fail to understand what enemy they are facing). More and more US soldiers will die. Being a life-respecting society, the US will have to withdraw (even the Russians wihdrew from Afghanistan). I fear it might be another Vietnam for the US, although with much more serious consequences for the rest of the western democratic world. Honestly, I don't have a slightest idea how you can win such a war. No country has that capacity.

    And let's not forgett there are the people of Iraq, which are humans too. The are dying and suffering every day. Living in extreeme fear and instability. I am not sure they'd be better of if the occupation ended now and the US left, I'm not sure they'd be better off if it stayed. It was better no to start this nonsense at all. Many strategies now seem like a lose or lose situation. But a loss with, say, 50,000 dead is still much better than a loss with 500,000 dead.

    This war was a painful blow to international law and order. The Bush strategy gives a precendent, a green light to any agressor to attack anyone without any serious grounds. Its essence is "I'm stronger therefore I am right. I will attach anyone that I consider dangerous or unfriendly to me. I don't need to be attacked first." It gives green light to countries like Russia to treat their neighbours as they wish. No sanction is needed for the use of force.

     

    Vytautas

  11. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    God loves you .

    How, if you can’t even trace the names to their work and reputations, can you attest to their being ‘better than Bush’?

    And, though active and growing since the 1950s, Islamism (Wahabbism, etc.) is Bush’s fault, too. And, the likes of Putim have never needed anyone else’s example to decide to attack, say, Chechnya, and long before Bush came along.

    We were not attacked first? Iraq as was Afghanistan is directly traceable to 9/11/2001, as Islamism and its terrorist ways go. Of the U.N., Hussein had only a cease-fire from the original Gulf conflict; he ignored its conditions. I see our war with Iraq continuation of the original Gulf conflict. And, clearly, waiting for the U.N. to do anything is to wait for every defeatist to decide he cannot afford to be defeatisst.

    Frankly, the rest of you, about the world, can afford to surrender to terrorism and Islamists precisely because the USA chooses not to.

    Just as frankly, your points are nearly categorically off-base. We have no rational argument to be made.

    Remember, I love you, too

    Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,

    Pristinus Sapienter

    (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or … yahoo.com)

  12. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Pristinus,

     

    I did not say I did not know all of these names. I said I do not know "some" of them. being not an American, I do not know people named Reid, Murtha, Leahy. But I do know enough about Blaire, Chirac, both Clintons, Gore, Kerry, Putin. So, from the ones that I know, most of them look like better choices for me as leaders than Bush. Besides, it was your choice of naming the alternatives. I guess there are more and better ones apart from the ones you named.

     (speaking of Checnya, it's a part of Russia, so you can only speak of fighting with rebels, not of an "attack" on another country. sure, there have been human rights violations, unnecessary use of force, but at least it's their own country. Unlike the US, Russia, despite being often unfriendly in tone and in economic relations, has not attacked a sovereign country for a long time already).

    Back to the US and Iraq, even if you can consider 9/11 as an attack by A COUNTRY on the US, and even if you could blame it on the country of Iraq (of which there is no evidence), the response has been grossly unprroportional, incompetent, and unsuccesfull.

    Indeed, it's hard to argue about something that seems to me and to most of the world obvious, but we can come back in a couple of years and see at least whose predictions were right.

     

    If you want to know more about other possible (and likely) reasons of the war, I recomment watching a relatively new BBC documentary "iraq conspiracy". You can find it on Youtube. I'm not saying it answers all questions and is 100 per cent truthful, but certainly interesting and makes sense.

     

    Vytautas

  13. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    In addition,

     

    both the article and some comments have taken a wrong view that its "the rest of the world against us". Us, who???

    I refuse to accept this division. Looking at the public opinion in the US, it's clearly not Europe or Arabs or the whole world against the US. It is nearly the whole world against the Bush administration and its war supported by a decreasing minority of Americans.

     

    Clearly, Americans are responsible for reelecting Bush. But who doesn't make mistakes. People were deceived, and now recognize that themselves. Even tyrant like Hitler misled 99 per cent of the German population. But were Germans, responsible for a far greated tragedy, hated? Not for a long period of time, not after they denounced what their government had done and became a normal democratic society. So whenever there's talk about "hating"" americans, it pretty much reffers to its current foreign policy, and even here, not as a whole, but its specific aspects, like the Iraq invasion or support to Israel. America's culture, its products,  American life-style, the opportunities it gives to imigrants, and the very country and people are still very much admired by most reasonable foreigners.

     

    Vytautas

  14. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    And speaking of alleged defeatism,

     

    i don't think aknowledgment of mistakes made is defeatism. Stopping an unfair fight migh require more wisdom and courage that continuing it, when your self-esteem or "reputation" is at stake. Escpecially when the acual fighting is done, the actual danger is faced not by you but by someon elso on your behalf.

     People in the polls are not saying: let's end this war or the war is bad because we are losing. They are saying this war is bad because we shouldn't have attacked Iraq in the first place. The evidence against the war (or lack of evidence in the opposite) is changing their opinion.

    Now, war results are of course influencing the opinion, too. But the argument that the war is bad because we are losing isn''t that undreasonable either, afterall. For it to be just, a war must be winnable. A war with no prospects or little prospects to win is unreasonable and unjust no matter what the intentions are. It's a waste of human lives, not speaking of other reasources.

    Vytautas

  15. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    vytautas,

    Read theshadids posting regarding just war above, dated 4/10/07 at 8:12 a.m.

    Is the better option a world with:

    – Saddam Hussein and his psychopathic sons still in power in Iraq

    – Iraq flaunting the UN cease fire and the IAEA from Baghdad

    – high poll numbers for President Kerry

    – pro-abortion majority secured on the US Supreme Court for at least another ten years

    Yes, this current situation is pretty grim, but the fact that it could be better does not make it the worst situation.

    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight – nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety – is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself." ~ John Stuart Mill 
     

     

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