Catholic Exchange

Priests Are Not Theological Vending Machines

When I was a kid I believed my family knew everything. My brother Mike, after all, could work wonders by turning me invisible with a mere “Abracadabra!” I’d run around the house waving at everybody and making faces and they would all stare right through me saying, “I hear you, Mark, but I can’t see you! Where are you?”

More than that, my parents knew everything there was to know about anything from ancient history like World War II to all the names of airplanes to dinosaurs. My oldest brother, Rick, was a fountain of information on any subject that came to hand. They were gods—until the day I asked “Who invented shoes?” and was flummoxed to discover none of them knew.

And as time wore on, I discovered that this strange new experience only increased in frequency. I found there were more and more questions my parents and brothers couldn’t answer at the drop of a hat. I discovered, in short, that they were human beings.

I sometimes think that many people still have not discovered this important fact when it comes to our priests. Here, for instance, is a letter I got recently from somebody who was greatly exercised because priests were not addressing an issue very close to my correspondent’s heart. My correspondent wrote:

What would you say if someone asked you when did Jesus know he was God? Trust me, not everyone agrees on the answer, especially not Catholic priests. When we start talking about Jesus, I think it is very important at this time to immediately say God is Jesus and Jesus is present in the Eucharist. I sure wish one priest would get up on the altar and say Jesus is God and Jesus knew he was God from the incarnation.

collar.jpgNow I’m fairly well-educated theologically. I get lots of questions along these lines from readers and listeners on radio programs. Indeed, I’ve gotten questions that were real lulus (“What is the official Church teaching on how much body mass you can lose before you lose your soul?” stands as the current champion lulu). But, that said, I can tell you that if someone suddenly demanded “When did Jesus know he was God?” my immediate answer would be “Beats me.” So I can well understand how someone might get a variety of answers to that question from a variety of Catholics, including priests. Jesus has, as we recall, a divine and human nature. We know from divine revelation that He “increased in wisdom and in stature” (Luke 2:52). In short, He learned things like all humans do. In His deity, He is omniscient. In His humanity, He asks questions because He doesn’t know things. He freely confesses “Of that day and that hour, no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only” (Matthew 24:36). So I don’t know that it’s a slam dunk to say with absolute confidence that Jesus knew He was God from the moment of His Incarnation in Mary’s womb.

Now, I’m just giving you my completely uninformed gerblat of a response based on what happens to spring to mind at the moment. That and five bucks will get you a cup of St. Arbuck’s coffee. I’m willing to bet good money that somewhere in the Church’s tradition this question has been given an exhaustive going-over by somebody (probably several somebodies) and there is probably even magisterial teaching on the question. If there is, then pay attention to that and not to my ignorant ramblings.

However, that said, my point is this: the failure of a busy, harried priest to be a theological vending machine on every abstruse question of theology–and that at the drop of a hat–is not really an indication of something sinister or substandard going on in the pulpit. Nor is it quite fair to relate the sudden question “When did Jesus know he was God?” to either the preaching of the Real Presence or the general question “Is Jesus God?” and suggest that failure to have sudden universal competence in the first question means neglect or denial of the other two questions. I go to a Dominican parish with a very strong Eucharistic devotion and very clear preaching on the deity of Christ and the Real Presence. Yet I have never heard a homily preached on the consciousness of Christ and the question of when He knew he was God. That’s largely because the question just hasn’t come up, not because there is a denial of His deity or of the Real Presence.

Moral: Don’t borrow trouble by assuming a priest who can’t give snappy answers to sudden and difficult questions is an apostate in the pulpit. Chances are he’s just human.

Comments

23 responses to “Priests Are Not Theological Vending Machines”

  1. fatherjo Avatar
    fatherjo

    St. Arbuck’s Coffee…now there’s a good business idea. They could serve Mystic Monk coffees…and angel food cake!

  2. yblegen Avatar
    yblegen

    Thanks Mark. Until I find a better answer, I am also sticking with the “I don’t know.” Jesus obviously knew something about his divinity when he was twelve, but how much….I don’t know.

  3. PrairieHawk Avatar

    I would vote for Jesus’ gradual unfolding of awareness of his divinity through intuitive and through ordinary human means.

  4. elkabrikir Avatar
    elkabrikir

    Several things are going on vis-a-vis this subject (not the one regarding Jesus’ knowledge of his divinity).

    Many people, especially those in positions of authority are concerned about how it looks if they “don’t know everything”. As a catechist, I tell my kids up front that my personal knowledge is limited and therefore, I’ll never “fake” an answer either to look good or give them security in my stature. I promise to research the truth and report.

    Second: Many people are suspicious of ANYTHING a priest says or does these days. They impute the worst motives to omissions or “alleged commissions”. I understand why this has occurred, but, flippant judging of priests must be stopped for the sake of the “judge’s” soul. It harms the Church too.

    Priests are human. Shock! They are spiritual works in progress just like the rest of us. And, Jesus uses flawed humans to work his Divine Plan of Salvation. A little mercy seems in order.

    ———————————-

    On to the example Mark used. Does it matter for our eternal salvation when Jesus knew of his divinity? If it doesn’t then we may never know the truth.

  5. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    St. Thomas addressed this in the Summa Third part question 9: explaining how Christ had both infused knowledge and acquired knowledge. The answer is that Christ knew He was God from His conception through infused knowledge. At the same time that he knew everything through infused knowledge, he also acquired knowledge in a natural human way. Read the Summa.
    While it is true that Priests cannot know everything, this is a question that is so basic to Catholic theology that every priest should know it. It is completely justifiable that a catholic should be disturbed that a priest does not know the answer to this question.
    There’s inexcusable ignorance in too many Catholics, priests and lay. I pray that the Holy Spirit enlightens all of our minds.

  6. Bruce Roeder Avatar
    Bruce Roeder

    I agree with PrairieHawk, but I’d llike to make one comment about Mark’s larger point about priests not being theological vending machines.

    First, I am assuming Mark is writing about diocesan (or secular) priests in a parish in a diocese, not regular (religious) priests in an order.

    The parish priest’s duties are to preach, teach, and sanctify. These three tasks are the mission of the Church and hence the job of bishop, who runs the Chruch in his diocese. The parish priest is appointed by the bishop to represent the bishop to the local parish and most have post-graduate or doctoral degrees, 4 to 12 years of seminary plus apostolates – special assignments, to parishes, prisons, nursing homes, hospitals, etc.

    I want to make the point that it is not completely unreasonable to expect a priest to be able to clarify a teaching of the faith when asked, especially commonly asked questions, even at the drop of a hat.

    I think some priests may get distracted by the workload for admin, counseling, and pastoral requirements (which are huge) at the expense of their charter to teach.

  7. goral Avatar
    goral

    No theologian knows the answer to this question for sure. There is no definitive Church teaching on this topic. That doesn’t mean that there are no “correct” answers. There are good answers to this question.
    I would put the question back at the person and ask – when were you aware of your humanity? or when did you become aware that you are a child of God with a certain purpose in His creation?
    The human development of Jesus followed the same pattern and timeline as ours, that’s a fair assumption. His divine unfolding is a mystery to us, however we know that he taught at the synagogue at the age of twelve and completed his divine mission at thirty three. Mathematically He accelerated everything by a ratio of three to one, a believable magic number.
    Therefore if it takes till twelve for a normal child to reach the state of awareness, Jesus had it at about the age of four.

    I think that’s very likely my son, if you don’t think so give me your own line of reasoning.
    Something along these lines is not too much to expect from the men who get the best intellectual, philosophical and spiritual formation in the world.
    Then again maybe I would just say – I don’t know! Now I will hear your confession.

  8. Mary Kochan Avatar
    Mary Kochan

    csjoyce, that is what I call an explanation that explains nothing. What does “infused knowledge” feel like inside the head of the person who is infused? How does the acquired knowledge integrate with the infused knowledge when the infused knowledge is the infinte knowledge of the Divine Mind? Trust me, St. Thomas Aquinas didn’t know either! This is the mystery of the Incarnation — we will never understand it; we can only be filled with wonder at contemplating it. “I don’t know” remains a perfectly valid answer.

  9. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    Mark Kochan, first, knowledge doesn’t feel like anything because it is immaterial. Second, of course St. Thomas didn’t know what it was like to experience being Jesus Christ, having both infused and acquired knowledge, but that isn’t an argument against his doctrine. Finally, yes, this is something that we will never completely understand, but we are able to have partial and limited understanding of such things.

  10. Mary Kochan Avatar
    Mary Kochan

    Having knowledge does engender feelings in a human being. Having the knowledge that one is about to get a raise feels a lot different from having the knowledge that one has been fired, for example. I didn’t argue against St. Thomas’ doctrine either. It simply does not address the question of Jesus self-awareness that prompted the discussion. As you said St. Thomas didn’t know what the experience of being Jesus Christ was like and yet that really is what is being asked about. I don’t know remains a valid answer.

  11. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    What St. THomas does teach about Christ in the Summa is that Christ knew all actual things at all times…therefore, he must have known he was God at all times. It is an absurdity to think that Christ in his human nature was ever ignorant of the fact that he was God.
    Yes, knowlege does engender feelings, but you’re not feeling the knowledge (this is a technical point upon which i’m sure we both agree and probably don’t need to dispute).

  12. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    http://www.diocs.org/q&a/answers.cfm?question=69scienceofchrist

    read this article, i hope it dispells your ignorance.

  13. elkabrikir Avatar
    elkabrikir

    My, why the vitriol “dispell your ignorance”, indeed!

    I don’t think it is essential for salvation to know when Christ knew his divinity. Therefore, pursue this inquiry if you wish, however, consider your motives.

    Goral: being a math dunce, I loved your simple calculations. Makes sense to me.

  14. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    You probably don’t think a whole of knowledge is essential for salvation. and haven’t you heard that dispelling someone’s ignorance is a spiritual work of mercy. I hope you also read the article, elkabrikir. If I were in a position of ignorance on an important matter like this, I hope someone would have the conern to help me.

  15. elkabrikir Avatar
    elkabrikir

    csjoyce it is a sin against justice and charity and imprudent, besides, to assume certain things about individuals. I don’t know you, therefore, perhaps you are a person of good will who could have worded your comments in a more delicate manner.

    I love Wisdom more than my life itself. Wisdom does not always translate into knowledge, however. I do not disdain learning about the topic at hand, however, rectitude of intention in seeking knowledge must be established. Remember that Adam and Eve ate fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil despite the fact that the Tree of Life was within the Garden too.

    St Bernadette is a prime example of a Saint who was ignorant of theology. God infused the Wisdom she needed to know, love, and serve him.

    Ironically, the main point of the article is not when Jesus discovered his humanity. It is as Mark writes— Moral: Don’t borrow trouble by assuming a priest who can’t give snappy answers to sudden and difficult questions is an apostate in the pulpit. Chances are he’s just human.

    BTW: As a teacher I have learned that how you present a lesson is as important, or even more important, than what you are teaching.

  16. Mary Kochan Avatar
    Mary Kochan

    Your link is interesting but the best of its argument is that sometime before he was twelve he knew. I already was well aware of that line of scriptural argument. Even accepting it, that doesn’t mean he knew at 2. And even if we were to insist that he did, we still would not know in what way that knowledge was expereinced by him as boy who was “growing in knowledge” according to scripture.

    It is always tempting to resolve the antimonies of the Incarnation by making the Divinity overwhelm the Humanity or the Humanity submerge the Divinty. Did the 3- yr-old Jesus so well know the laws of physics, the workings of his own musco-skeletal system, and the geologic history of every spot upon which he was to place his foot as to make the youthful slip and fall depicted in The Passion movie an impossiblity? if so, in what way could such a child ever be said to “like us in all things except sin”? It is no more “absurd” to think that Jesus in his humanity was for some period of time ignorant that he was God than it is to think that my four-month-old granddaughter is ignorant of the fact that she is a human being.

    Like I said before.

  17. csjoyce Avatar
    csjoyce

    Did you even read the article, and if so, reread it because you didn’t read it carefully enough. Christ always knew he was divine.
    Furthermore, I’m sure Bernadette would never have had such an absurd question as “did Christ know he was divine, and when?” People with faith simply don’t have to grapple with such absurdities.
    It’s true, we don’t know eachother, and therefore, since I don’t the intellectual abilities of those with whom I argue, I will end this argument righ now…for all I know you just can’t “get it.”

  18. Cooky642 Avatar
    Cooky642

    OUCH! Okay, cjoyce, Mary and elka to separate corners! (Goody! That leaves the last corner for me!)

    This discussion strikes me as similar to the one about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. !!!

    Getting back to Mark’s article, and speaking of “cosmic vending machines”, how about expanding this (?) to those Christians (certainly not an exclusively Catholic trait) who expect God to be a cosmic vending machine? It drives me nuts that people expect prayer to be a “fair exchange”: I put in X-number of prayers, and get what I want in return. What happened to the “cosmic necessity” of “no” being a valid answer? Or, “yes, but not now”? How infantile is it to demand what-I-want-when-I-want-it? And, how many people do you know (I think I have more than my fair share) who are angry at God for “letting them down”, at themselves (presumably for not putting in the proper number of prayers), or even at their co-Christians because they didn’t get what they wanted? (Believe it or not, I have one “friend” who inevitably blames ME for not praying hard enough for HER intentions!) It just seems to me that Mark could write something spectacular on this.

    And, lastly, Mark, I have an answer for your “current champion lulu”: how much body mass can one lose before one loses one’s soul? How about: the exact amount that would cause you to die–otherwise known as suicide! (Suicide is a mortal sin; dying in mortal sin precludes salvation; therefore, one would “lose” their soul.)

  19. fishman Avatar
    fishman

    can someone to define a word for me. ‘know’.

    It seems to me that before you can talk about when someone knows something you must first agree on what it means to ‘know’ something.

    I suspect part of the problems lies in the fact that there are differing types of knowledge. Even psychology records ‘body memories’.

    An infused ‘knowledge’ does not imply what most people mean when they say. “knows’.

    I mean seriously. If you were to have walked up to the manager and said ‘hey baby jesus are you God’. do you think he would have answered ‘why yes I am’.

    No, because he didn’t ‘know’ how to talk. Can you claim to ‘know’ something you cannot articulate in words? What does that mean?

    The answer is yes, but now we are talking about something that most people who recognize as ‘knowledge’ because most non-philosopher types limit the idea of ‘knowing’ to factual knowledge that one can articulate.

    On the flip side I could memorize an encyclopedia of information about a person , but still not ‘know’ them because we never met. there is a type of experience that can be called knowing, which is not equivalent to the recall of facts.

    So Mary is correct when she talks about the ‘feeling’ of ‘knowing’.

    Most people who ask the question are really wanting to know when Jesus the man came to reorganization of his inborn knowledge in such a way that he could articulate it.

  20. Mary Kochan Avatar
    Mary Kochan

    Csjoyce I know the article asserted that. But the only argument presented was that he knew at 12 based on Scripture. I understand the difference between making an assertion and making an argument.

    Also faith seeks understanding. The blanket assertion that people who ask this question lack faith is insulting and besides how in the world could you even know such a thing?

    Suggest your communication on these comboxes might take a more kindly tone henceforth.

    Fishman — you know not what you ask! You want to turn this into a discussion of epistemology? Yikes!

  21. Joe DeVet Avatar
    Joe DeVet

    I’d be very happy if the priests consistently “knew” the truths of faith and morals which common people have a right to straight answers on. Unfortunately, there are a number of priests who have a “know-nothing” attitude toward things like contraception and other “hard issues” that they are either too lazy or too timid to learn how to articulate according to authentic Church teachings.

    If they could do that at least, then I would be satisfied. We don’t need to expect them to be able to hold forth on arcana.

  22. Bruce Roeder Avatar
    Bruce Roeder

    Amen, Joe.

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